A “Chinese Bishops’ Conference in communion with the Pope” is “what we hope to see and that for which we have been praying for a long time”: the viewpoint of Joseph Wei Jingyi, the “clandestine” Catholic bishop in Qiqihar, in the northeastern province of Heilongjiang. Wei is a known member of the so-called “clandestine” Chinese Church: an unfortunate and misleading term used to indicate the part of bishops, priests and faithful who are not subject to the organisms and methods of religious politics in Beijing.
In the past, Wei experienced three periods of detention and restriction of personal freedoms, the longest of which lasted more than two years, from September 1990 to December 1992. Vatican Insider asked him some questions, taking its cue from the recent article published by Cardinal John Tong on possible developments of the China-Holy See dialogue concerning the procedures for the appointment of Chinese bishops. A matter about which the Bishop expresses himself with the freedom and the sensitivity of a pastor who looks after souls: also sharing the hope that this time of possible, desired changes “may be accompanied by the fruits of conversion in us all.”
Bishop Joseph Wei, as a Chinese bishop, what struck you the most in the commentary from Cardinal John Tong on possible developments in relations between the Holy See, the Church in China and the Chinese government in the appointment of bishops?
The article by Cardinal Tong on the “Communion of the Church in China with the universal Church” impressed me for its novelty. What impressed me most is the light that Tong has received from heaven, which has enlightened him and caused him to look at the whole issue with new eyes. He begins with the way chosen by God to communicate with man, and also suggests using that same perspective to look at the dialogue between the Holy See and Beijing. It is because of this that he can anticipate developments which are so important and positive.
Cardinal Tong writes that “the Holy See has the authority to determine the most appropriate modalities for the appointment of bishops in China”, and that the Pope “has the specific authority to consider the special conditions of the Church within the country and to establish special laws, which however do not violate the principles of faith and do not destroy ecclesial communion.” Are the so-called “clandestine” bishops, including yourself, ready to recognize this fact?
By exercising their own authority in these matters, the Pope and the Holy See will certainly not contradict the faith and will not damage the communion and unity of the Church. The Chinese faithful who live in China, whether clandestine or official, are all Catholics. And Catholics are faithful to the Apostolic See. It was in order to remain faithful to the Apostolic See of Rome that I agreed to become a “clandestine” bishop! How could I now refuse what is denoted by the Holy See? It is for the explicit confession of our fidelity to the Pope and the Apostolic See that we have become a “clandestine” community, or rather not officially registered in the civil system. And thus, how could we now reject what comes from the Pope and the Holy See?
In his long essay, Cardinal Tong writes: “Some are concerned that the negotiations between China and the Vatican will result in the abandonment of unofficial bishops.” You, as a bishop who is not recognized by the government - what do you think?
I wonder: what could be the legitimate prerogatives of the clandestine communities who risk being contradicted or frustrated in negotiations between China and the Holy See? There is the canon law and the civil law, but from both points of view, the dialogue between the Holy See and the Chinese government will not sacrifice any legitimate request of the clandestine communities. Regarding concerns that the Apostolic See, in negotiations, could forget the bishops in prison - they seem completely baseless. How can the Church, who is a mother, forget her own children who confess their faith, even at the price of suffering? It is impossible, because it is impossible that the Holy Spirit should abandon the Church.
Cardinal Tong writes that the Holy See, with the agreement in question, wants to promote the full communion of the Church in China, and envisions a bishops' conference bringing together all the bishops in communion with the Pope, after the cases of illegitimate and excommunicated bishops have been resolved. Could there be resistance in the Chinese community, after so many decades of division?
The Church of God, as it journeys through history, is made up of sinners. If it takes shape - a Chinese Bishops’ Conference in communion with the Pope - all these bishops will be people who are converted to walk together towards the Kingdom of God. This vision, this perspective, is beautiful. This is what we have hoped to see for a long time, what we have long prayed for. The community of Chinese faithful will have no objection. But we also hope that this will be accompanied by the fruits of conversion in us all. It is a time when we all have to look at the concrete condition of the Prodigal Son, as narrated in the Gospel: the son who had been away for years and, just to survive, ended up looking after the pigs. One can imagine that he smelled like the pigs too, and who then, returning home, would have washed himself as soon as possible, because no one wants to stay close to people who stink. We do not want to see the Prodigal Son who, after being embraced by his father, returns to the mess with the pigs, to splash around in their mud, and does not ask to be freed from filth and the bad smell. If someone behaves like this, and goes back in the mud, it means that he has no identity, no sense of belonging, and everyone will flee from him.
Have you heard anything regarding the content of the negotiations between the Holy See and the Chinese government?
We do not know the details, but we know that they are working, that the work is progressing, and so it means that things are moving forward. There is no need to hurry, because it is good that the work should go forward steadily. But at the same time, we hope that they will soon reach a concrete result, which will be good for everyone. And the sooner this arrives, the better.
According to some commentators, the dialogue is unrealistic and even harmful if the weight of the Patriotic Association is not eliminated first. Is this the case?
When two entities begin to negotiate, they must be free to talk about everything. Even the Patriotic Association. But without imposing pre-conditions. We must say what we think, and also give suggestions, but the Pope must feel our full support above all, and our trust in him. We should not be the ones to impose conditions on him, to say what he should or should not do, or even expect to impose our ideas on him. In the Gospel, Jesus gave Peter the task of strengthening his brethren in the faith. That same Jesus assists the Pope in this task. And we should not have the pretense of teaching him how to do it.
But what if one, in all conscience, has doubts?
The criterion to follow are not one’s own opinions, but the Gospel and the faith of the Apostles. No one can believe that his ideas are superior to the words of Jesus. And Jesus, in the Gospel, also told us to trust Peter, the Apostle who betrayed him, and whom He forgave, because Peter supports Him. Certainly, we have to follow the truth that we perceive in our conscience. But is faith that illuminates our conscience, and not vice versa.
What are the major opportunities and also the most dangerous pitfalls that you see, as a pastor, in the present and the future of the Church in China?
In this time, in Chinese society, it is felt that there is a need for moral reference points, because corruption ruins and destroys everything. So it has provoked a widespread aspiration for good, to do things out of respect for others and the common good. And in this way, in my opinion, a climate is spreading that is conducive to the spirit of the Gospel. We see that we can work together. Chinese society expects a positive and constructive contribution from us as Christians. The risk is that we will not take advantage of this favorable circumstance, because we are distracted and we get lost in other things. It would be like a refusal to proclaim the Gospel, precisely at a moment when many may welcome it with joy.
Cardinal Tong, a few months ago, reaffirmed the need to “china-size” the Church in China, so that it is never perceived as a form of religious colonization. Is this a tricky process?
But even Matteo Ricci did not bring the “Italian Gospel” or the “French Gospel” to China. He brought the Gospel. And he followed the Chinese way in order to get it to the Chinese.
Do the homilies and speeches of Pope Francis continue to be easily accessible, on Chinese soil?
Certainly. They are published on many websites, and pass from person to person. We are following step by step all the suggestions related to the Holy Year of Mercy. On the internet I also see that many Chinese go to see the Pope at the General Audiences, in Rome, and they meet him in St. Peter's Square. He greets them often. Compared to the past, for the Chinese it has become easier to get to Rome and to see or even greet the Pope. There is a visible closeness with the Bishop of Rome, which was not there before. Things have changed and they continue to change.
Could the role of the Patriotic Association also evolve?
Personally, I hope that in time it will become a thing of the past. Because so many have a bad memory of the role it played in so many situations. The important thing is to find new ways to also help Catholics to express their love for the homeland.
You have no doubt followed the story of Thaddeus Ma Daqin, Bishop of Shanghai, and his comments on the positive role of the Patriotic Association. Some have labelled him as a defector, a traitor.
No one can afford to judge, defame and thrash others as traitors. No one has the right to do it, and whoever does it, does a very bad thing. What can we possibly know about what is in the heart of Thaddeus Ma Daqin, after the experience he has lived, and after he was prevented for four years from becoming bishop?
You can imagine, better than we can, what has transpired in the heart of Bishop Ma.
I did not have his same experiences. But loneliness yes, and also the fact of being moved to one place or another. In those circumstances, you are never alone: you are before God, and what you think and do, you think and you do before God. Maybe the faithful do not see these things, maybe others have betrayed you, but you are always before God. And that is worth more. We pray for Ma Daqin with respect, without permitting ourselves to judge the hearts of others.
Father Lombardi, then the director of the Holy See Press Office, had said that the Pope prays for Ma Daqin and for all the Chinese.
The Pope is a father; he looks at and judges things with a father’s eye. Bishop Ma Daqin is a man who prays, the Pope knows this and trusts him. For a father, the most important thing is to show his love for his children.
